Curse

Gli · Apr 16, 2008, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Can we have heroes calling targets please? Since they hardly ever attack what I tell them to, maybe we can reverse roles. Things would be so much better if I could make Sousuke or Master of Whispers the designated caller, and just follow suit. That way, at least 2 partymembers would be attacking the same target.

Sadly, this isn't sarcasm, although I can see how it might be misconstrued as such.

tracco · Apr 16, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

That means they'd have to know who to call strategically.
Which, I believe, would require a lot of programming on ANet's side of things. Also, it would require more CPU power/time on the server side.

Gli · Apr 16, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

No, nothing like that at all. They can just attack who they attack now. The only addition would have to be the 'target call'.

tracco · Apr 16, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

So when they call out the warrior in a mob of 6 with two monks... You follow their lead?

Why do you want this? :P

quickmonty · Apr 16, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Do you know that you can lock your heroes (and your pet) on a target?

Also, I haven't seen any problems with heroes attacking other than the target I call.

I'd rather not have a hero calling targets.

Kook~NBK~ · Apr 16, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

/not signed.

Heros already do some pretty stupid things. This would be just another way for them to do a thing stupidly.

Lock your heroes on the target you want and go to town.

Gli · Apr 16, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracco

So when they call out the warrior in a mob of 6 with two monks... You follow their lead?

Why do you want this? :P

That's already answered in my original post. Because they will attack whatever they want to attack anyway. Me helping a hero attack a warrior is preferable to me attacking the monk all by myself and the hero attacking the warrior all by himself. Stuff will die faster.

I could also request the heroes to follow my call, but their failure to do so has been discussed to death. This new suggestions seems like an easier fix.

Locking heroes on target takes too much work. I want to c-{ctrl-space} my way to victory. But since heroes don't work that way, I'll compromise and go T-{ctrl-space}

Turbobusa · Apr 16, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

I also would like heroes to be able to talk, so they can go on vent so we can coordinate and have fun telling jokes. I want them to weapon switch also.

Beeb beeb · Apr 16, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Heroes always follow my target.

Gli · Apr 16, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beeb beeb

Heroes always follow my target.

That's funny, because short of micromanaging their controls and locking them on target, there's absolutely nothing I can do to make them follow my calls. Often they even rush ahead to cast at enemies way at the back of the group we're fighting, ones I never even touched with my aggro circle and definitely never called.

Perhaps their behaviour depends on our profession and weapon selection or something. They definitely adjust their marching order based on those.

Giiooo · Apr 16, 2008, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

That's funny, because short of micromanaging their controls and locking them on target, there's absolutely nothing I can do to make them follow my calls. Often they even rush ahead to cast at enemies way at the back of the group we're fighting, ones I never even touched with my aggro circle and definitely never called.

Perhaps their behaviour depends on our profession and weapon selection or something. They definitely adjust their marching order based on those.

I've never had any problems with hero's following my calls. They only run ahead of me when i put them on ''attack'' instead of ''Guard'' liek i usually have

MithranArkanere · Apr 16, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

You are their leader.

Flesh Golems choose very wisely their targets, but that doens't meant you should attack what they attack.

They should follow your lead.

Tokar Terrius · Apr 16, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

lol
QFT all replies!

/unsigned

MagmaRed · Apr 16, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

/unsigned

Heroes work correctly, IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM. Set all heroes to Guard. This makes them stay near you, and not ruch into aggro, or follow a monster 4 aggro bubbles away to pull in more groups. Set Monks without an offensive skill (like Power Drain, Leech Signet, etc.) to Avoid Combat. This makes them kite, stay to the back, and more away when needed. Call the target you want them to attack.

Hench have more issues with this than heroes, but that is because several hench are set on Attack (Devonna, etc.) If you do not call a target, you may notice that the hero/hench will attack monsters in a fairly predictable pattern. They tend to attack healers first, massive damage or interrupt monsters next, and melee last.

Perhaps you simply need to adjust your heroes settings, call a better target, and give them appropriate builds. My heroes work fine, and none of the people I have played with had issues or commented about problems with their heroes.

Gli · Apr 16, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Heroes work correctly, IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM. Set all heroes to Guard. This makes them stay near you, and not ruch into aggro, or follow a monster 4 aggro bubbles away to pull in more groups. Set Monks without an offensive skill (like Power Drain, Leech Signet, etc.) to Avoid Combat. This makes them kite, stay to the back, and more away when needed. Call the target you want them to attack.

This is exactly how I play. It's how I got the Legendary Vanquisher title months before GW:EN came out. Recently however, nothing I do can make them work anymore. They will rush into battle toward the target I called, but once the battle is joined, they will switch to whatever target they please. I can call targets until my mouse and keyboard are pulverized, and it doesn't convince my caster heroes to comply. Ever. This behaviour started for me at the same time the presence of enemy spirits started freezing heroes. It didn't bother me for the most time because I almost always play with guild parties, but recently, trying to accomplish some solo stuff, play has become insufferable due to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Hench have more issues with this than heroes, but that is because several hench are set on Attack (Devonna, etc.) If you do not call a target, you may notice that the hero/hench will attack monsters in a fairly predictable pattern. They tend to attack healers first, massive damage or interrupt monsters next, and melee last.

Melee heroes and henchies work perfectly. It's the casters that are the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Perhaps you simply need to adjust your heroes settings, call a better target, and give them appropriate builds. My heroes work fine, and none of the people I have played with had issues or commented about problems with their heroes.

Settings are fine.

A 'better' target? What does that mean? Are some members of a group more likely to inspire loyalty in my heroes than others, when called as targets? Or is this just a nonsense suggestion?

Appropriate builds... mmm... another suggestion I can't quite grasp. Do we have skills that cause complete disobedience when used on hero bars? Someone should make a note of those on the wiki pages.

Tyla · Apr 16, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Can't we just make the AI atleast half decent first?
As in, not be almost as bad as an Ursan-less PuG?

Draikin · Apr 16, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Gli, would this be the problem you're talking about?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...called_targets

Except for that issue, the AI selects targets based on the skills they're using. For most skills, they will use them on called or otherwise locked targets. However, when using AoE attacks like Searing Flames they will ignore target lock/called targets in order to hit as many foes as possible. Similarly, they will also ignore target lock when using hexes like Insidious Parasite (they specifically target foes that are attacking).

Richardt · Apr 16, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I think part of your problems might be AoE. Heroes will run all over the map to avoid it, and when they rejoin battle they'll just target the nearest enemy-and it's a good chance that it was one that they weren't attacking before hand.

Another possibility is that caster heroes seem to know automatically what hexes/conditions are on an enemy. So if you're running with 2 SS's (as an example), call a target, one will cast SS on him, and then the other one will pick a random foe to SS. Take a look at your hero bars and see if there are any duplicate skills.

Having heroes call targets would be nice, but they don't always pick the best targets (i.e. they'll attack warriors first and ignore enemy healers). And having them call would just fill up team chat with extra crap. And like someone said, this would require a bit more programming-it's not as easy as saying "Well they're attacking Enemy X, so why not just have them say it?". People seem to forget when they make a suggestion it requires alot of effort and adjustments within the code-even if it's something that seems simple.

Gli · Apr 16, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Gli, would this be the problem you're talking about?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...called_targets

Except for that issue, the AI selects targets based on the skills they're using. For most skills, they will use them on called or otherwise locked targets. However, when using AoE attacks like Searing Flames they will ignore target lock/called targets in order to hit as many foes as possible. Similarly, they will also ignore target lock when using hexes like Insidious Parasite (they specifically target foes that are attacking).

Could well be it. Never heard of that issue before, but it might fit. Most of my caster heroes do run some interference skills, and I'm using an ele with an AoE water snare. That doesn't mean they I want them to use those left and right when I'm calling the shots. They should use what skills they have that do work well on the target I'm calling, when I'm calling it. I'll make sure to check if the ommission of certain skills makes them more well-behaved. Or I could go back to using mostly melee heroes. They hardly ever give me any kind of AI trouble. I certainly don't feel like going around micromanaging each and every hero all the time in order to finish dead-simple battles in half the time. Not worth the hassle.

Re: Richardt: I'm not running multiples of any hex skills.

P.S. for those who haven't caught on, I was lying when I said I wasn't being sarcastic. I'd much prefer the AI to obey me instead of the other way around.

Div · Apr 16, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Can't we just make the AI atleast half decent first?
As in, not be almost as bad as an Ursan-less PuG?

It's actually much better than an ursanless pug if you take the time to flag them and micro them. But no one does that because it's too much work, so they're only slightly better